Episode 101: 8 Bad Habits That Are Costing You Money with Eric Knight of Orenda Technologies
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In this episode, Eric Knight from Orenda joins us again, but this time it is to discuss eight bad habits that are costing you money. We first heard Eric talk about these on a Facebook live that he and Laura put on for Orenda. In that discussion, they laid out 6 habits, and for this discussion, we talk about those but throw in two of our own in the mix as well. After sitting through their FB live conversation, we wished we would have heard these habits years ago as changing a few of them would have saved us money for sure. Many times, when we were looking where we could cut costs to help get through the tighter summer months, we often looked at the big-ticket items, but what we learned over the years was that it was the little items that made the biggest difference. We think that with a few subtle changes you can save yourselves time and money, both of which are pretty valuable when running a business or a route. We always have a good time when we chat with Eric, and this episode was no exception, we had a great discussion and with many laughs along the way.
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Show Notes
[04:06] - #6 Not measuring chemicals (eye-balling)
[16:56] - #5 Not measuring pool volume
[26:12] - #4 Ignoring water temperature & the LSI
[33:28] - #7 Being on your phone in the backyard or on the route
[41:01] - #3 Neglecting test kits
[50:26] - #2 Chasing PH
[01:04:38] - #1 Abusing Muriatic Acid
[01:18:53] - #8 Messy service truck
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Tyler Rasmussen:
Hey, Pool Chasers. Welcome to Episode 101.
Tyler Rasmussen:
Have you ever looked at your finances and wondered where you could cut costs to help get through the summer months? I know we do that quite often. And many times we were looking at the big ticket items to try to cut those costs. But what we learned throughout the years was that it is the little things that made a big difference and really saved us money. On this episode, we discuss eight bad habits that you or your technicians may be doing that are costing you money. We think that with a few subtle changes, you will see a big difference in your chemical costs as well as be more productive throughout the day. We are joined by our good friend Eric Knight of Orenda Technologies for an episode that we wish we would have heard several years ago. So we hope you get something out of it. And we hope you enjoy episode 101.
Pool Chasers Intro:
Welcome to your go to podcast for the pool and spa industry. My name is Tyler Ramussen and my name is Greg Villafana and this is the Pool Chasers Podcast.
Greg Villafana:
Thank you so much for joining us again on the podcast. Eric, appreciate you being here. Yeah, happy to be back, guys. So for those that don't know who you are. Can you introduce yourself and what your role is with Orenda?
Eric Knight:
Sure. I'm Eric Knight with Orenda. I wear a lot of different hats as discussed in the previous podcast. I don't really have a title.
Eric Knight:
I go where the companies to go, sales, marketing, brand, development, Web site, app, you name it. I mean, most of the videos and I do a lot of the trainings online. We do a lot of video trainings even before Covid-19 company trainings, one on one or with small groups of companies. The whole idea is to help explain some of what we're going to discuss today in a way that's more relatable. So that's what I do. I'm customer facing. With Orenda, that's what I do.
Greg Villafana:
Very good. Thank you. And you know, you had put on a webinar recently on Facebook and we thought the topic was really good. You know, many of the things that you discussed is, you know, some things that we've mentioned on the podcast here and there. But that'd be a good, good idea to collaborate on a full episode about bad habits that pool service companies might have.
Eric Knight:
And you wonder where you're going.
Eric Knight:
Yes, but bad habits. That's it. You know how that actually came up? Because I teach all these classes at these trade shows and at the Western show this year. And if you're listening, whoever it is at the Western show who sets us up, nobody asked us what we wanted to teach or if we wanted to teach. We just got signed up. And so we're trying to figure out like, well, who signed us up? Like, first of all, we didn't get any. I didn't get an email about it. We get signed up for the same material that we taught the previous year. I'm like, I don't want to do that. The same people. So actually, you know, it end up working to their favor because I was going to completely abandon that and just teach something that I wanted to teach.
Eric Knight:
That would add more value to the attendees at the Western show that I called it my six bad habits that need to stop. And that's how it kind of started. And I had a lot of fun with it.
Eric Knight:
The original presentation was not brand approved by the owners of Orenda. But I had some pretty hilarious photos in there of these bad habits and I didn't want to put them on Facebook. I had a lot of fun making it. And really it was just I made it on the airplane out to L.A. when I found out what I was supposed to be teaching. I'm like, you know what? Now, now not teach you that I'm going to teach about these habits that I see all over the country. And I'm just going to see how it goes. I'm just going to wing it. And that's how I've sung started. And it ended up being like one of the most popular things we've ever taught. So glad you're bringing it up. Perfect.
Greg Villafana:
So you get the six and we added two on the other end. Hence the eight topics. So of it, what is the first topic of discussion?
Not measuring chemicals
Eric Knight:
Well, I'm going to go by memory here. So I counted down the. Hands down. The biggest one is number one. So let's start at number six. Not measuring. This is a problem everywhere, so people eyeball chemicals, not measuring chemicals may not be a huge deal if you're off by a few ounces glugging liquid chlorine into a pool because you're you're just chlorinating. But it's a really big deal if you're not measuring muriatic acid and if you're not measuring something like soda ash, which I understand is less common, the Mirotic, but not measuring chemicals is a real problem. And I'll ask you guys a question. And Tyler, I know you were on the webinar. Greg, were you on the webinar on Facebook to.
Greg Villafana:
Yes, you were OK. You're looking.
Eric Knight:
I'm going to ask you. You look uncertain if you are. So here's what, because I saw.
Greg Villafana:
I got the notification and I put it out. But I was in the middle of working on something, so I. But I loved. There was so many things that caught my attention. Syeda kind of like turn it down because he had something pressing.
Eric Knight:
Fair enough. Fair enough. But it's still stings.
Eric Knight:
So here's the question.
Eric Knight:
And to your audience listening, envision a 20 thousand gallon pool. You have a 20 thousand gallon backyard pool, very common size. When you get there, the P.H. is 8.0. Very common, P.H., especially on a liquid chlorine or a salt pulled, a P-H is going to rise Aido P.H. on a 20 thousand gallon pool. You need to lower that P.H. to 7.5.
Eric Knight:
How much acid does that take? Don't look it up. Just habit.
Greg Villafana:
Quarter gallon.
Eric Knight:
Ok. Tyler.
Tyler Rasmussen:
Thirty three ounces. You guys actually got it right?
Greg Villafana:
I oh, I got it right it because I cheated. That's the second time I've heard it. But Greg got close, very close tonight and I guess half again the first time. So you got lucky.
Greg Villafana:
There was no math behind what I just did.
Eric Knight:
I have been asking that question pretty much everywhere I go around the country. When we were still able to travel and I would say over 90 percent of people answer a half gallon or more. I've heard other than you guys here and, you know, during the Facebook Live, because people were looking at their phones. I've heard less than 10 people say a court, a quarter gallon. It's almost always a half gallon it up. And that's a really bad habit because the actual answer is about a court, depending on your alkalinity. I think at 90 ounces, it's like thirty one and a half or something. And then at 80 alkalinity, it's gonna be a little less it'd be like twenty eight ounces. At seventy alkalinity it'd be like twenty five ounces or whatever. So the less alkalinity you have the less acid it takes, which makes sense because you have less alkalinity burn through. But the point is it's about a court. And if 90 percent of the industry and these are not dumb people, these are they have a lot of art too. These are good service professionals that have been making a career out of this. They say a half gallon. That's twice the acid you actually need. And what do you think that does the LSI? It actually we did the math.
Eric Knight:
It actually drops your P.H. to somewhere between six point seven and six point eight, which plummets your LSI, which causes and overcorrection. And then, you know, if you have a cement based finish, plaster, pebble courts, anything like that. Well, you're going to etch that. And then you get calcium hydroxide, which has a twelve point six P.H., and you get this chemical conflict, which leaves behind over time. It can turn a plaster surface that's colored into a white mark. It can lose pigment. It can cause localized scale crystals like on the pebbles of a pebble finish, like at the bottom of the pool. It's really a lot of conflict and chemistry simply because nobody took the time to actually dose and figure out. How much acid does that actually take? They followed a habit, and that's a really bad habit. So there's two kind of two sides to it. Number one is they don't dose right. Like, you've got to know, which will bring into habit number five. You had to know how much chemical the pool actually needs and then use a measuring cup. Actually take the extra 10 seconds and measure it because that's a big deal. So that is habit number six. Does that fully explain it, guys? Questions on that?
Greg Villafana:
Yeah, man, I used to when I heard that I was cracking up, I actually texted Ty and I was like, I wonder if a Starbucks venti cup counts because I'm in our first year.
Greg Villafana:
That was definitely my go to shocking cup.
Eric Knight:
Hey, there's some measurements say a venti is, I don't know, off the top of my head around Kudo's for your honesty.
Eric Knight:
I actually one of the one of the most clever one that I saw. I'm not endorsing this, but this is what they said they use. The guy uses a PDA light bottle because the neck closes off on the top. It's exactly a court. And so he'll pour acid in the Pedialyte bottle because he could put a cap on it so he doesn't risk spilling. And then he takes that into the back yard and like. Interesting. That seems like an extra step. But at least, you know, your solid measurement that you're not going to overdose if that's all you bring into your backyard. Yeah. So I thought that was kind of a one way to do it. I don't.
Eric Knight:
Look, here's the thing. Just go random. So, like, three bucks.
Eric Knight:
Like, you need a good liquid measuring cup that can hold up to about a court and you want a good dry measuring cup for granular chemicals like Cal Hypos, shock or calcium chloride, whatever,
Greg Villafana:
But also making sure that you have the proper PPE for all this stuff, because that is very you want to educate your team on how to do this stuff correctly.
Greg Villafana:
And when you're doing that, you want to make sure that if you're transferring it from the bottle to another measuring device to go into the pool, the fumes are going out twice now. So last thing you want is because it's now going from bottled up pool with that could be about three feet. Or if you're doing it, you're supposed to a little bit closer, but now you're doing it into a measuring that's a foot away from your face. You know, a fair to away from your face that is extremely dangerous.
Eric Knight:
What's it's is much different. You're right. Protective gear, glasses and gloves, especially with with ventilators. I'm not sure ventilators are necessary for doing it right. Because, you know, there's usually cross-breeze. I'm not trying not to inhale deeply while you're pouring it, but it can absolutely harm you if you get too close to muriatic acid or chlorine and never mix the two. Right. I should add an extra habit, except it's not a bad habit, but it's just like a safety precaution. Never mix chemicals together directly. Never. Rule of thumb. Never, ever mix chemicals with another chemical.
Tyler Rasmussen:
I'm just going to say that when you said measuring cups to make sure that your measuring cup stay with that specific chemical, you don't. So. Yeah. You know what. Or yeah. I guess where you can rent some. But like you don't want to call hypo measuring cup being wet.
Greg Villafana:
I mean that's like Greg Villafana circa 2017 lit up. Gee, I blew a caddy. Blue Caddy. I had shown mixed in every direction.
Greg Villafana:
And I put the caddy down like kind of Jarda. I don't know if that was what it needed to kind of mix, but this dude, it blew about two feet off the ground.
Greg Villafana:
My ears were ringing like in our backyard right by the right gate. And their garage was open. And I remember like I remember like I backed away. I'm freaked out on, like, holy shit. What? I don't know of anybody that this has ever happened to. And gosh. Yeah.
Tyler Rasmussen:
It was so what. Mixed different types of chlorine. Tallyho and. Oh yes. And a little bit of water and a little bit of water because, you know, you're you're testing stuff is in there, you're grabbing stuff. Your hands are wet.
Greg Villafana:
And we used to always like terrified to go in because it was like losing like over the top of this thing.
Tyler Rasmussen:
And I'm like, do we have a really bad habit of putting like a cow hypos scoop into the bucket, like just full of cow hypos? You'd have to make an extra trip to the truck. And then that habit stopped when when that happened, when I lost my I was straw and all.
Eric Knight:
Yeah. Just rule of thumb. If any different types of chlorine touch each other. It's an explosive or fire risk. Yeah. No matter what, it's dangerous, right? Yeah. And if you mix like acid with any type of chlorine, it can create toxic gases that can kill you if you consume, you know, if you inhaled enough of it, that's really not a prevalent problem. So I didn't get included with my bad habits that I see everywhere. The six bad habits that I had, like they're everywhere. I see them all over the country. Very, very common. That's a safety thing and a great story. I'm glad you're alive to tell it. I've seen me, too. I've heard of stories where entire factories blow up. It happened. Like what? A year ago or two years ago.
Tyler Rasmussen:
Yeah, I think I think that happened at a distribution center here in Arizona.
Eric Knight:
So there was one in New Jersey not too long ago that it was probably consider it like a five alarm fire, that chlorine. I mean, it's it's a powerful disinfectant, but it's a powerful oxidizer, too. It's just not a very good oxidizer against bather waste. It's a great oxidizer if it's out in the open and you can burn things. Chlorine is extremely flammable. So, yeah, like I said, Greg, great example. Stay safe. Protective gear, glasses and gloves. Keep your chemicals separate. All that stuff.
Greg Villafana:
Pool service career's over. Nobody's going to hire me now. No, but look out. Look how authentic you sound on your podcast. People like, oh, he learned his lesson.
Greg Villafana:
But I mean, that was like year one or two. And I mean, we learned a long time after a lot of those stupid mistakes. But it's about learning when you do mess up that bad.
Tyler Rasmussen:
You're lucky you learned it that way and not with it in your truck on the highway or something like that.
Greg Villafana:
Right.
Greg Villafana:
But we do 100 percent agree because this was always a frickin difficult area was, you know, actually measuring things correctly, even down to the D.E either diatomaceous earth when we were doing filter Clean's. I mean, didn't we start bagging bagging the D up because it was like this specifically goes to this filter clean after this filter is complete because it's for, you know, this side the size, the filter.
Eric Knight:
So a lot of a lot of why we did that six bad habits was about money. It was, you know, let's not charge our homeowners any more money here. Let's just find profit that you're leaving on the table. That's really what it's about. It's it's it's inefficiencies. You guys are wasting time and money with these bad habits, and they don't really save you any time. Not much. I mean, how much time does it take you to measure acid before you pretty diluted it, put it in a pool, an extra 10 to 20 seconds. Come on.
Greg Villafana:
I mean, if you're fighting with baby mama and you got all this other shit going on. It's not that easy Eric. Well, you know what? You're.
Eric Knight:
You're the man that's bringing my theory into the real world. And I appreciate that.
Tyler Rasmussen:
So, yeah, it wasn't one way of people in the backyards would have waited derail me. So, yeah.
Eric Knight:
So get a measuring cup. Use it. That's that's bad. Habit number six on the countdown. So that's the first one. And if you do that, let's think how many. Round about round numbers. How many pools did you guys have in your service company? 400. 400, OK. Let's just say that all of your guys were doubling the amount of acid that they needed to because of the habit of half a gallon.
Tyler Rasmussen:
Oh, they for sure were OK.
Eric Knight:
So how much money that you spent could you have profited on? And that's, by the way. That's just the acid. That doesn't include the bicarb because you tanked twice the amount of alkalinity that you were supposed to get to replace that. And it doesn't include the extra time either to correct this chemistry. And it's all because it wasn't dosed and measured properly. And that's a that's a habit that's free to change. So for sure, the first habit.
Tyler Rasmussen:
But now I think that's a benefit of us having a conversation about your six topics, because now we have a on the here. But when we when I was listening to you talk, now we've got our texting back and forth and I knew hear your time on measuring chemicals like a lot towards the end of running the business about how much money we're wasting, how much money was out there that our guys do, you know, maybe don't comprehend exactly how much they should actually putting in the pool. So that was a big conversation. And when I heard you say that, I was like Holmen, we've talked about a lot.
Not measuring pool volume
Eric Knight:
But it's a big matters now because it matters a lot to a one poller. Oh, yeah, for sure. For a company like yours, it is a ton of money and a lot of pools of money by any stretch. So the next habit really ties into that. And that is. Not measuring pool volume. If you don't know the volume of your pool because you never measured it and you just eyeball it, it's about 20 thousand gallons or that's about fifteen thousand gallons. How do you really know? I mean, in the real world, most people are off by several thousand gallons. Myself included. And there's a lot of reasons for this. Because let's say that your customer didn't build the pool. They bought the house that had a pool. Well, of course, the realtor isn't incentivized to exaggerate the gallons of the pool. And I actually went to a pool that was a problem. And they said, oh, yeah, this is a thirty five thousand gallon pool. And I looked at it. Well, it's not a 20 foot deep pool. So, no, it's not. It's not. It's nowhere close. It was it was twenty two thousand when we measured it out. That's the closest we could estimate. Twenty two thousand. That's a third pretty much. So they were overdosing by that much 30 percent more than they needed to. You do the math on that, on anything. And by the way, if they thought it was thirty five thousand gallons, what do you think? Double the amount of acid on that is a whole lot of what they see. What I'm saying, like, it really gets out of hand fast. So if you don't know the volume of your pool, you cannot get accurate dosing. The LSI calculator we have in the Arenda app is only as good as the information you put in it.
Eric Knight:
So the habit change here is don't assume you know the volume of any pool unless you are the builder or you know the builder. And they gave you a very specific gallonage. So to correct this habit that the easiest way to do it is contact the builder. They if it was built in the last 10, 15 years, they're going to have software that should they should have software that will tell you the gallons of that pool. It's never going to be perfect because the guys shooting the concrete are not going to get the contours exactly like the software says. So you're you're you're always gonna be off by a couple hundred gallons at least, but you're gonna be really close. That's the most accurate way you could do it. And that's the easiest. It doesn't really take you any time, just call a builder, find out what it is or how the homeowner do so once you have the number. Write it down on the equipment set in a place that's not going to get washed off with rain or anything like that. Like maybe inside the controller panel on the inside door somewhere weatherproof. All it takes is a Sharpie or a sticker like one of those sticky label machines that you can print out a little thing, whatever it is. Have it on site. Because if you can't make service that we can, you have to have one of your buddies in IPSSA or you U.P.A. go over there and treat that pool. They need to know what the gallonage. And it'd be really cool if you guys coordinate as local chapters or as service companies that, hey, we always have the volume of our pool right above our branded sticker here on the equipment set.
Eric Knight:
It's always in the same place. That's going to be a lot easier for the next person who comes in. And, you know, hopefully you maintain that pool as a customer. But the reality is it's what's right for the homeowner, whether you have that pool or not. That homeowner does not know how big their pool is. Take it to the bank. So find that out. If you don't, there is a formula. We have a blog about it on how to approximate and how to measure your pool volume where you're basically trying to measure the dimensions of the pool and be as accurate as possible.
Eric Knight:
And you're trying to get the cubic area, the cubic volume of that pool. And so you take a surface area times the average depth as accurately as you can do, and then you apply a multiplier to it. So four gallons like what we do, it's seven point four eight gallons in every cubic foot of water. So it's a multiplier. It's a simple equation on our Orenda app.
Eric Knight:
We have a pool volume estimated that applies that exact formula. So you just put in the dimensions and we're updating our app. So it's going to look better. It's going to look different, but it works just fine. You just put in the dimensions. It will calculate the cubic area and then it will apply that multiplier and will give you an estimate of what the volume is. It's pretty quick, easy to use, but you have to do the dimensions. So one of the questions I get a lot is how do you measure the depth? Well, you have a pole, don't you? You take the head off the pole, you take the brush off and you put that pull down, you mark where it is. And I've talked to pole manufacturers, if they're listening. Put measurement. Graduation's on these poles. It's a tool like the pole is an essential piece of the pool guy's route. You can measure things out. You can measure the dimension across by laying the pole across a pool. You can definitely get depths. Be as accurate as you can. And with these free form pools, these real fancy ones, I realize it's a lot harder to do the best you can, but the best way to do is contact the pool builder. And for those pool builders who are listening and I know there are a lot of pool builders in your audience, you guys. Kudos for that. Make sure you tell the homeowner the actual number. Don't exaggerate. Please don't exaggerate. We see it all the time. Oh, the pool builder built me this this great twenty five thousand gallon pool. It's like sixteen thousand gallons lying to a homeowner and saying. I'm not accusing pool builders doing it, but maybe the sales guy did. So I'm saying let it happened. It's it's actually a really big problem. It happens a lot. The service guys under the impression that it's a certain amount of water.
Eric Knight:
Well, that's screwing over the homeowner and the service guy. So do your due diligence.
Eric Knight:
Find out what the actual volume of that pool is as accurately as possible and then write it down. That is the next habit.
Tyler Rasmussen:
You started doing that towards the end with all your bids. You realized how important it was to everything.
Yeah, no, that's all really good advice. And putting it on the board with a label maker or engraved plate or whatever. Get your hands on. But adding that to your CRM and whatever pool service route software you're using. So that that is one of the key things that pops up so that when technician gets there is a picture of the pool, the house, whatever it may be, they know that this pool is 20 thousand gallons. So if they are having to add asset or bicarb or anything, for that matter, they know how big the pool is. So you're taking that out of the equation. They're not having to walk it out. I don't think they're gonna do that anyway. We don't really have anybody that would have done that. So I think starting when you're taking on a pool for pool service anyway, start that relationship off on the right foot. And that's by doing everything, looking at the equipment, measuring the pool and putting all that data. Because if you're taking the time, even if it took two or three hours to do, you're saving yourself so much time and aggravation, because even if a technician is new and they might not know something, it's so much easier to have all the photos and all the data. And they say, I have to. The chemistry is showing me this or the pool looks like this. And it's like, OK, well, I can see that the pools 20 thousand gallons. And if this is true, you're telling me you need to add this much. And how I got there was a ABC and you can do that because you have the data not you don't know anything, but you have collected all of that stuff.
Eric Knight:
And here's a step further. Remember, go the extra step doesn't take an extra mile, just an extra step. If you are trying to retain that customer and add value, one of the easy ways that you can do it is make little sticky cards or stickers you buy like Avery stickers at Staples or something. Print your logo on it. Print your company name and logo phone number. Email your contact information and put a line under it. Pool size and just write it with a Sharpie and stick it on the inside of the equipment. Yeah. Now you're branded, you've branded that number.
Greg Villafana:
You measured it like like a land while you taught that home school you're like a blank box so that you could put them on all of them and write it in. Yeah, that's an idea as.
Eric Knight:
These little things are things that are going to help that homeowner and future homeowners that are going to own that pool.
Greg Villafana:
That's what it is, because people don't usually they usually inherit a pool. So that's that's where it's really huge as a new pool company gets a pool or a new homeowner bought a house with a pool, all the information is there. It's not. Well, it was the pool guy, three, four pool guys ago is the one that has all the information and the pool builder is not around anymore. All right. There's no way of telling who the builder is.
Eric Knight:
So there's there should be no secrets with the volume of a pool that should be printed publicly. No, seriously, because it's it's a big problem. It's a big problem that compounds into almost all the other habits except the next one if you're ready to move on to the next one. I am to move.
Eric Knight:
Okay.
Do not ignore water temperature
Eric Knight:
Do not ignore water temperature. Everyone ignores water temperature. Temperature is a monster factor in the language or saturation index, which we went in-depth in on the last podcast. If you don't know what the LSI is at the bottom of the Orenda app, you'll see a number that says LSI.
Eric Knight:
That number is the objective measure of how balanced your water is, not how chlorinated it is, but how balanced it is.
Eric Knight:
And as you touched on the Orenda app and you lower the temperature, you're noticed the LSI goes way down. So if you go from 90 degree water and you drop it to 40 degrees, it's a very different LSI. All right. And we often make the mistake out of habit of trying to stay within range chemistry parameters year round. Well, guys, January is a little colder than August, isn't it? Yes, sir. Well, you'll need different chemistry because people don't think about the water temperature or temperature matters. It matters a lot. So the habit change. Number one, get a thermometer. If you don't have a thermometer, there are only a few bucks. I have one on a string. I think Pentair makes it a great little thing. No batteries, analog, and it's super reliable. This is a this is a very simple technology that's very proven. Of all our testing equipment, thermometers are probably the most reliable of anything. No reagents needed.
Greg Villafana:
It's also a good way to put it in the cost. When you're doing this service, save money and say, hey, we're going to every pool should have one of these. And this is the importance of it. We're giving it to you in Brand, that bad boy.
Greg Villafana:
All right. Stickers everywhere.
Eric Knight:
Actually, there's a service company, a pretty large service company. I won't say who or where. But he is asking the question for his guys. He's got a lot of guys like me how to, like, incentivize them to get these thermometers and these houses. I said, easy, let them keep the profit. You might you buy a thermometer for a few bucks at distribution and sell it for a few dollars more or let him keep the two or three dollars profit. You don't gouge a homeowner. We sell for under 15 bucks. Who cares? But that but that guy's got 40 pools on his route.
Eric Knight:
Dang.
Eric Knight:
You know, 40 pools and he's making five bucks a pool. That's 200 bucks in his pocket. That's not a bad incentive to sell these thermometers to homeowners. And a lot of them already will have it. But I will tell you, a comfortable majority of them don't nonno here. And they all need one.
Eric Knight:
Not not in Phoenix. It's going to get higher. Get a thermometer. So the action step here is use a thermometer. Don't just have one. Use it. Keep it with your test kit. Tie it to your test kit. Do something. Those of you who have the fancy like infrared ones. Great. Make sure that you have an extra pair of batteries. So it doesn't die mid route, but take multiple readings. If you're using the infrared, look at the deep end. Look at the shallow end. Look at the middle. Aggregate those numbers. They're gonna be close, but they're gonna be slightly different because those things are super specific. I do not like using the equipment set. Controllers have thermometers on them. Sometimes they give a temperature, Rita. That's the temperature in the plumbing. I don't like using that as the primary gauge. It's fine if it's running 24/7 can be close. I want to know what's in the actual pool. Get a thermometer on a string. Sell one to every homeowner. Encourage them to buy. There. Only a few dollars.
Eric Knight:
It's not a lot of money, but it will bode very well for your long term chemistry strategy if you know where the where the temperature is. Because how cold is cold. I was at a pool. I guess it is over a year ago now. It would have been. Not this past winter, but the the winter before. I'm at a pool and it's so cold when I'm trying to get chemical chemistry readings to get a water sample that my hand is like shivering and it's hard for me to gauge. So I know I have to warm up the sample of water to get an accurate water reading, which is part of this habit. Don't just take water chemistry readings when the water is below 50 degrees to be safe below 60. If it's cold to the touch. Warm it up. Test the water. The readings will still be accurate if if it's 70 degrees, 80 degrees or 90 degrees. But if it's if it's too hot, like over 90 may not be accurate. If it's too cold below 50, 55, 60, depending on the manufacturer. So you just want to warm it up to like room temperature.
Eric Knight:
Then get the readings because the reagents in these test kits or if you have a digital one, they have dry reagents. They are temperature sensitive. They're not always the same temperature. So anyways, I'm digging this out. But at the time, I didn't have a thermometer because I flew to this place. It wasn't my test kit. I didn't have a thermometer with me. I didn't bring it through TSA. Right. While my customer didn't have a thermometer, I'm like, it's cold. I don't know. It's. It's probably 50, right? So the next day after I leave and move on, that customer called me, said it's 37 degrees. Mm hmm. Thirty seven. That's a 13 degree difference. You do that on the LSI calculator. That's a difference. All right. So there you you have to know what the temperature is. And when you know what the temperature is, you can predict what is going to change about that chemistry before it happens. You know, it's going to be getting colder in the fall. Act accordingly in the springtime. You know, it's getting warmer. Act accordingly. So don't ignore water temperature. Get a thermometer plan and act accordingly.
Greg Villafana:
Right. And I think that keeps you on your toes, cause how many pools did we see that were having algae issues and things like that? Did it's frickin December. January. But you don't realize it. The pool is now one hundred and three hundred forty degrees. And they you never even knew that they heated this pool. But there's there's a lot of pools that are actually heating up. And that is a huge difference where you're used to come into this pool every week and it's 60 degrees or whatever, and it's like, oh, all the sudden now it's hundred for I have to treat this pool completely different because if it's heated, there are also going to be using it much differently as well. So those are all things to help keep everybody accountable where it's like, oh, snap.
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Eric Knight:
Well, I would like you to interject one of your two habits at this point, because I've gotten through three of mine. I've got three left. You had two. What's your first one? Choose one.
Eric Knight:
Yeah. I'll talk to you. You guys added it up, too. So it's the eight habits I only had.
Being on your phone in the backyard or while in route
Tyler Rasmussen:
So what I want to talk about is the big habit of being on your phones in the backyards and also being on your phones throughout the route. If you're a one poller and you're running the operation or you are taking all of the calls, I kind of understand, you know, there's there's different variables within this. But I think there was a lot of time where we had different technicians with different habits. One of our technicians would be at the door at five thirty when we opened and he would finish his polls around 11:00. Eleven thirty. But he didn't mess around. He was on his phone. He wasn't taking family phone calls. He was going from stop to stop to stop maybe, you know, take a little bite to eat but kept going. And then we had other technicians that would come in around the same time. But for some reason they get done with their paws at like 4:00 p.m. And I know being the owner and Greg being the owner of that like that, those routes aren't that much different and their skill sets aren't hugely different. So what is the factor in why is this person taking so long? And we found out that they take these breaks on their phones and they they'll be on Facebook, they'll be on Instagram, they'll be calling their girlfriend or their buddies and talking the whole time, which is a huge distraction from water cameras and what you're supposed to be doing anyways.
Tyler Rasmussen:
If that smoke breaks, smoke breaks are a big deal. But, you know, the reason I bring it up is because I see a lot of complaining out there that, oh, I work Saturdays and oh, I work Sunday, seven days a week or oh, I work all this extra time. But really a lot of those times I think is because you're not using your time accordingly and not using it, you know how you should be and then you're prolonging those days and prolonging those polls to the weekend. So that's what that's what I want to bring up. I understand there are different variables within that. And some people need to be on the phone. Some people have emergencies. But there's a big, I think, piece of that where people are just wasting time. And there's awesome uses for Facebook groups and awesome uses for Instagram while you're out there using it to promote your business. But be strategic with that. If you want to take pictures for Facebook or Instagram, take them and then post them later or take them, plan them later. You know, there's lots of social media like apps out there that you can set different times or release points so you can take a picture today or release it tomorrow, things like that. You know, that can really save you a ton of time. And like we said, time this time is money. So that's a big one that I've noticed.
Eric Knight:
That's a good one. Yeah, that's a really good one. You touched on two things that I think definitely bear repeating. The first one, and this is huge. It should probably be my seventh habit, but it's not it's not as prevalent anymore as it probably was ten years ago. Do not smoke in a homeowner's backyard now. A lot of people don't like smoking. I know. I don't like it. If you smoke, that's your habit. Keep it in your truck. But the big problem here is not that you're smoking in the backyard. What do you think? What do you think the homeowner finds cigarette or does? That is an absolute deal breaker. Never, ever, ever put yourself in a position where you could even possibly leave a cigarette butt in a backyard. And I've heard I've heard service companies that are our customers say this to their guys, like they have written policies. Some of them do not smoke. And there's actually really good service company. They got a lot of guys and they fine them fifty dollars if they smoke on a homeowner's property. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, you know what? It's a bad habit. It's not as prevalent to make this top eight list that you have here, but that that time management thing is huge. Time management is profitability. It's the same way you have to get through any business. And I think a lot of service techs that don't own the service companies don't understand the profitability aspect of it. It's just a job. But take an ownership mindset, get through your work, do it right. And if you do it right, like your gentleman who started at five thirty in the morning, it was done before noon. He's got all the time in the world to post all those pictures he took on Instagram later, which get through the work, get it done, do it right. That's an awesome one. I think that adds a lot of value to the list.
Eric Knight:
To be honest with you, I kind of wish I came up with it, but as evidenced was not a pool service guy, so I don't pretend to be.
Eric Knight:
So you guys are uniquely qualified to know this. My list of six are things that I have personally seen. Sure. That I have seen all over the place.
Greg Villafana:
I wanted to add one thing because it was really difficult having team members that did smoke because they were really good at what they did and know that there's a lot of people listening. Probably have team members that do smoke, and it's a really difficult discussion to have with them, but we did talk about this and we never got to implement it. But I think it's a good idea to maybe try and pay for, if you can, or insurance or just patty or pocket, but maybe help them quit. Maybe there is some different things that you can program that you can get them on so that you can help them quit. And maybe that will actually help with the conversation where it's like, hey, you know, this is maybe use other words, buy. It is a bad image for the brand, for the company to hear your arms hanging out the window, your smoke in. You have all these chemicals, you're in a backyard, you're smoking, you're leaving all your, you know, cigarette cartons and things like that in the backyard.
Greg Villafana:
But having that talk where it's like, hey, we can have that, we're not letting we're implementing this new policy. But, you know, we want to help you and, you know, we want you to live a long time, wants you to be here. So maybe we can help you get on a program. Are you interested in maybe they're not interested, but I think if it were me, I would I would take that much better than just now. Do it. And you're in. You're done. All right. It's like, you know what? We want to help you.
Greg Villafana:
You know, you can take it or you can just, you know, go to the park and have your smoke when you need to or, you know, whatever. But, you know, coming up with an idea, because we know that it's not that easy to just because I used to drive me like frickin nuts when he'd be actually doing the plumbing and doing all his stuff.
Greg Villafana:
And, you know, he's smoking, but it's like cigarette hanging out of the mouth. Yeah. But he was but it was really good and good with talking with the customers and all those different things. So it's like there's a lot of people to understand that sometimes it is difficult to have those conversations because that guy's like, yeah, screw it. Like, I don't work for somebody that I don't throw stones.
Eric Knight:
I don't judge a guy for smoking if you're gonna smoke. Fine. Wedge all the line. If I'm if I owned a service company, I draw the line with doing it in the homeowner's property and leaving the even the risk of leaving cigarette butts if you're to smoke smoke in your truck. Yeah, but be responsible about it. But yeah, again, it is we all know it's an unhealthy habit. So I think it's an awesome thing because now you're actually helping that employee beyond paying them a paycheck that they may not see it as help at first, but it is a good thing to help someone quit if they're willing to, you know, lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. So very, very good point. I love that added habit. Sorry, management smoke breaks, all that stuff. What's your next one? Well, number three on the list, we started at six, which was measure chemicals.
Don't neglect your test kit
Eric Knight:
Five was measure the pool, volume four was don't ignore water temperature and use a thermometer. Now we're on number three. Number three is do not neglect your test kits. Boom. The test kit is the most important piece of equipment. One could argue that you have in your truck. Second, probably only to your phone. But that's a communication device in terms of pool chemistry. It is super important to take care of your test kit because that is going to be guiding most of the decisions you're going to be making on that pool. We see it all over the place. At any distribution center that we go to, I can almost guarantee somebody is going to have a test kit in the back of their truck and direct sunlight. Maybe it's on the the cart with their vacuum cleaner that hangs on the tow hitch or it's in the back in a little tote thing or how everyone's got their own little system. We see them in direct sunlight all day, every day. That is really bad for a test kit. No matter what type it is, reagent test kits, especially extreme heat ruins reagents. I'm I don't know enough to know how fast that happens. I just know you're not supposed to do it. Test strips, extreme heat can ruin the reagents on those strips inside the can or inside the bottle, whatever you would call it.
Eric Knight:
So the first part of neglecting it is where do you store it? The second part is how do you maintain it? OK, so the storage one direct sunlight is obviously a problem. Extreme cold is also a problem. But the best known practice to replace this habit with is treat that test kit like it's valuable. Put it in your truck, put it out of direct sunlight, look under the seat in the back of your truck or something like that that it's not getting. Definitely not on your dashboard, you know. Put it somewhere in there. And in a place like Phoenix or Palm Springs work, it's really hot in the summer. One of the best things I've seen is put it in a cooler. Try to keep it as regular on temperature as you can, because the most accurate test that you can have will give you the most accurate advice on how to treat that pool. So that's maintaining it in storage. All those hot summer nights in Phoenix. I know it could be over a hundred degrees. Bring the test kit inside. Take it with you. It's the most valuable thing you have, stay with it.
Greg Villafana:
Take care. All snuggle up next to sleep with it.
Greg Villafana:
Sleep with your picks. Sleep, sleep, pigs for testing. And like a velvet crown royal bag inside of a combination safe. Oh, yeah, totally. Do a video for you where it's in a safe like it's asinger. Sounds like an April Fool's video over it. That would be so funny. Totally. I just need to find a safe test. It's like, are you cheating on me? And you see a skill like a bottle test strips over there. Are you with that stripper? Oh, man, that's so good. There's there's so many opportunities with this analogy. That's great. OK. Bad habit number seven. Don't sleep with your test kits especially. There's test strips nearby. You guys are ridiculous. I thought this was a professional podcast.
Eric Knight:
Here I am being outgunned. Didn't Herald tell you? Hey, you asked for it. And whoever you wanted, you wanted it.
Eric Knight:
That's fair. Yes. I just said I wanted to know what the trash talk. Yeah. Oh, you guys are just showing me up on this. I'm I'm kind of upset with myself that I didn't come up with that. Good for you. That's good. But next, the real topic. Back to the real topic. Take care. Do take care of your test kits, though.
Eric Knight:
All exaggeration aside, if it's really hot or really cold outside. Bring it indoors. Keep it in room temperature. Keep it out of direct sunlight. Now, that's just storage. The other side of neglecting test kits is letting them get dirty or letting them not be maintained well, or letting the reagents expire or not calibrating them. Electronic test kits, they need to be calibrated. Photon hitters like a like a one of those that you'd like, mash the pill in a sample of water and then you cap it up and it shines light through and tells you what it is. You got to clean those files. You have to clean the vial on the reagent drop test kit. I see those files that are just so disgusting and dirty. Well, it's a color comparison and you're supposed to look through that thing and determine what the color is matching. Well, how are you supposed to do that if the whole thing is brown? You're never going to get an accurate reading. So take care of the kids every once in a while. Be responsible, clean it out. Take some for nine or Windex.
Eric Knight:
Clean the thing out. Rinse it thoroughly. Put it back in. Take care and take pride in the test kit you choose and be aware of the expiration dates. I've seen a lot of expired, by the way. I was unaware that they could expire when I first bought. I bought a Taylor when I first started at a ARENDA because I know what I saw in my area. And it wasn't until last year that I was even aware they had expiration dates because I hardly ever use my test kit, nor normally when I'm out in the field. I flew somewhere and I'm using my customers test kit and. I was doing a test. I looked at my ratings. They expired two years ago. None of like none of this is reliable. It maybe it's still work, but who knows? Like, I don't like the unknown. So it just kind of be aware of that, that you should. Look at expiration dates. Calibrate your equipment. Keep them clean, keep them stored safe. So that is my third. Bad habit, which is neglecting test kits.
Tyler Rasmussen:
I got to give you Greg credit. I mean, that's something you implement in, you know, the last year and a half was like the technicians bringing in their totes every night and putting him in the air conditioned room. I mean, had make sure they were clean. So chlorine gas everywhere. But that was another step. And it really helped, I think, prolong those the life of our test kits.
Greg Villafana:
Yeah, it's something you might not fully know. There's no way you can think that all your equipment is safe in the back of a vehicle when it's one hundred plus degrees outside. And plus you make them aware of when they're bringing. If they do have some kind of caddy or something, you know, bringing they're holding it into the warehouse or wherever it's going to be stored, that it is actually cleaned up.
Greg Villafana:
You know, if they've got paper towels or strips or empty bottles or whatever, it may be that they're actually transferring that stuff to the trash. And if they have tabs or anything like that, it's actually going back into buckets and actually, you know, going through all those steps.
Tyler Rasmussen:
I think we saw it give them like a sense of pride, too, which is really cool that we didn't maybe foresee the day they started to kind of compete on who's cleaner.
Eric Knight:
I love that. And there's a psychological aspect to that. You make up a very good point.
Greg Villafana:
Well, we would actually we would actually get excited because if there was a technician's truck that was on point man, but we were actually excited, but like, damn, that's what I'm talking about. You guys, this truck looks like shit. It's fucking machoism, boy.
Greg Villafana:
Get out of here. It's got 20 years on. You can't freaking clean a truck.
Greg Villafana:
Get that sushi off the designated ROPS, Dave and prostitutes. Those little things matter. Now they really do.
Eric Knight:
And there's a psychological aspect to the competition of it. You know, reward the guys when they're doing a good job, taking care of their stuff and then kind of put it in the mindset. I realize there's a difference here, but would you leave your phone in the back of your truck all day? Now your Ipad. So right now there's a bigger theft risk. I get that there's really no theft risk with a pool test kit unless you're in a distribution parking lot. This guy's got an expensive test kit, right?
Eric Knight:
That's because you own one. You don't own the other one. Exactly. But we have to have the same kind of mindset of this is valuable rest up, valuable tool.
Eric Knight:
I say they're expensive. Keep it in my truck. I need to pull it into my house. That's the kind of thing that's a great habit to have. And again, all these habits, they really cost you nothing. You know, a couple bucks for measuring cups and a thermometer. But other than that, they cost you know, these are free habits to change it.
Tyler Rasmussen:
Pretty easy to make test trips and reagents where one of the most money we spent per week. I mean, Kyle get six pack of testers every two days and then reagents for the ones that are using those like it's a it's a lot of money for a company. And if you know that, not let alone and if you drop it, the test in water or your hand is wet and you ruin the test strips inside the container like there's a lot. Oh, yeah. It's very valuable.
Eric Knight:
Dry your hand, shake the bottle, follow manufacturer instruction, shake the bottle to one or two strips, comes out, grab the end of the strip, pull it out and then, you know, close the bottle. Those kind of things follow instructions. So that is my third bad habit. We have two more to go. Shall we move on? Yes, sir. Yes. This one's a little bit dense and I'm gonna just paraphrase and I will tell your audience to look into this. Number one. This is not any information that we. It sounds like we made it up. We did not make any of it up. All of this information is available on our Web site, in our blog, and we hyperlink out to the studies and the white papers and all the research that backs this up.
Tyler Rasmussen:
Yeah, let's be careful of this rabbit hole.
Eric Knight:
Let's read it. We're not go down this rabbit hole.
Chasing PH
Eric Knight:
Basically, the bad habit is chasing P.H.. People try to keep their P.H. seven four to seven six all the time because the textbook says to do that. And there's a lot of consequences to that. But if you have outdoor pools was sign acid. The research shows that the P.H. largely doesn't have much of an impact on the strength of your chlorine anymore. I to be clear what I mean by that. You still have chlorine. What you want to avoid, though, is over stabilizing it. So if cyanuric acid is present. Guys, this is a huge paradigm shift. It cannot be overstated. The P.H., we have all been taught, controls the strength of the chlorine, that the lower your P.H., the stronger your chlorine. And the reason for that is it's got a higher percentage of hypochlorite acid, which is the bad ass killing form of chlorine. That all goes out the window in a stabilized pool. We're not making it up. All this is cited research. You can look at the charge. You can read the papers if you want to nerd out like I had to do. It's real. Cyanuric acid takes over. So the P.H. could be eight and you could still have the same strength of chlorine, relatively speaking, as seven point O. If you have Sinar Cassatt's so the P.H. is almost irrelevant to the strength of the chlorine. It's still a monster factor on the LSI. So I'm not saying P.H. doesn't matter. I'm saying that with cyanuric acid in your water, it doesn't control the strength of your chlorine anymore. What you have to pay attention to is the free chlorine to sign erk acid ratio. That's what's going to drive the speed. Or in this case, strength of chlorine, because chlorine is all about speed. So contact time, etc..
Tyler Rasmussen:
The Mike Tyson analogy, so I didn't do it on Facebook. But, yeah.
Eric Knight:
Mike Tyson, if Mike Tyson were to punch you in the face, I mean, if he punched me in the face, I'd probably have to go to hospital. I'd be knocked out if you didn't break bones. And my jaw is Iron Mike, right. And part of what made Mike Tyson so formidable and so dangerous was not that he was bigger or stronger than guys like Evander Holyfield because he wasn't. He was faster. He was so good because he was so fast. He could hit you so fast. And force is mass times acceleration. Chlorination is about speed, speed and power. So it takes contact time to kill germs and algae and anything else as a sanitiser. If you slow that down, it's effectively weaker because now it cannot do its job as fast. So it's less powerful. So if Mike Tyson punch you full speed, you'd go to hospital? Probably. But what if he punch you in slow motion, like real slow, like here comes buddy.
Eric Knight:
Here, come come to your chin. Come get ready for it. Here comes. Oh, yeah. And then by the time, please don't sue. I think by the time.
Eric Knight:
By the time it gets to your face, you might give me your staff. Plenty of time to react. And it doesn't even hurt, really.
Eric Knight:
I mean, it's kind of comical. Right. But he's still Mike Tyson. He's still just as strong. He's no weaker than he was. He's just slower and effectively doesn't hurt. The impact isn't the same. That's what over stabilization does do. Chlorine, you still have it, but it just takes longer for it to do its job. So P.H. goes out the window on the percentage of hypochlorite acid because it's seven. Oh, it's like just under three percent. And it aido it's just a little bit lower than that, pretty much at the floor. So it's a negligible thing. Don't chase P.H..
Eric Knight:
With the expectation that it's controlling your chlorine, it is not controlling the strength of your chlorine. It is an Elci factor. So that's the first half of this bad habit. The second half is understanding the physics of what P.H. is actually trying to do. P.H. is a reactionary chemistry. That's the best way I can explain it.
Eric Knight:
It reacts to other things that are going on. It is an equilibrium. So it bounces. It moves a lot. I'll ask you guys, you have a pool service company. Could you keep P.H. still for 10 minutes?
Tyler Rasmussen:
Not very easily. 10 minutes.
Eric Knight:
But I mean, even with chemical controllers that they're constantly either feeding acid or they're eating dissolved biochar. I mean, they're constantly battling it. Right. CO2, acid, whatever it is. That's because physics does not want P.H. to be 747 six. That's where the textbook wants you to be there, and the reason the textbook wants you to be there is for the strength of chlorine.
Eric Knight:
Now, on an indoor pool or any pool that has zero cyanuric acid. Yes, P.H. absolutely controls the strength of your chlorine. No doubt. That's without any stabilizer. But let's be real. Most of your audience, we're talking about outdoor backyard pools. Some commercial, but they're outdoor and they got stabilizer. Fair statement. So this is a very pertinent message. Physics actually wants your P.H. to be about eight point two. That's the ceiling. We don't need to go into it again. All of this is on Arenda text blog. You can find it there. Hyperlinked it. You see it all there. But when?
Eric Knight:
Is equalized, basically, the percentage of carbon dioxide in water has to equalize with the atmosphere above the water. And, of course, the atmosphere that we all share around the world, your backyard pool is not going to make a blip of difference in that. So we know pretty much what the constant is. Your pool is going to off gas carbon dioxide to equalize with the same percentage in the atmosphere. And that percentage happens to be a point to P.H., whether you like it or not, so I don't care how good you are. That's where the water's trying to go.
Eric Knight:
But the closer you get to it, the slower it moves. So instead of correcting down and chasing P to try to keep it seven, four to seven, six, that's a ridiculous strategy. You'll never win. And anybody listening to this who's been trying to do that already kind of knows it's painstaking. Because it's you're fighting physics. I don't care how good you are. You're not going to win. So instead of chasing P.H. and trying to control it. The habit change here is contain it and don't worry about it, getting up to something like seven nine or eight 00 or even eight one or eight to the ceiling's eight to, it's not going over there unless it's forced. So how do you build an LSI strategy around a higher P.H.? Well, knowing where the floor is and what we have found at Arenda, doing a lot of work with our calculator and a lot of infield experimentation, it's probably better to set your paycheck every week to about seven, six or even seven seven. And only go that low. And the reason is you're already that much closer to a point to it's going to be slower to change. So if you this is a this is a bad habit right here. A lot of people are like, oh, mama, P.H. is always eight every week that I get back there instead of going to seven for I'm going to go to seven oh this week because I don't want it to be eight next week. And of course, when they get back, it's actually higher than eight because the rubber band thing like the LSI, the further away from the target, the faster it react and fights back.
Eric Knight:
So it's actually rebounding faster because you went to low. I don't want you to go too low on the P.H. if you really want to save a ton of money and a ton of stress. Only worry about containing the P.H. between something like seven, five or seven, six at the lowest. And let the ceiling be eight two, naturally. And what you'll find is when you do this with a good amount of calcium hardness to reinforce it, that's another rabbit hole. But if you have an LSI strategy, basically, if you set it to seven, six every week, you're going to start getting this so dialed in that when you come back the next week, seven days later, you're gonna start being able to predict what your P.H. is with almost absolute certitude. And it's not going to take you long to figure out what it is, because that pool is going to be slightly different than everyone else, but it's going to be about seven, nine or Aido. Naturally. Don't freak out. You are not doing anything wrong. That's exactly what it was supposed to do. And now you take a measured amount of acid. And bring it back down to seven, six. That's your correction. That's the habit. Contain P.H.. Don't freak out when it goes up to eight. If it goes over eight, too, it was forced. You guys had any pools on your route that had, like varnishing edges, like overflow infinity walls?
Tyler Rasmussen:
Yeah, the area this aerated all the time.
Eric Knight:
Bingo. Aeration people who run their Spaull all night. You know, they have or they all day. They have splash features. Variation drives CO2 out faster. If there's algae in a pool, algae consumes CO2, pulls it out, solution, P.H. goes up. So these factors will get the P.H. higher. But the big factor, which ties into my final habit, the big factor is overcorrecting with acid and etching pools. That is the number one reason that in my experience, that's the number one reason why P.H. goes over eight point two. It's etching pools. So if you ever have a P.H. way over eight point two, it was forced but did not naturally get there. So that's my second habit.
Eric Knight:
How do I do? Tyler, you heard the the actual rabbit hole last week. I feel like I did pretty well. Not go. Yeah.
Tyler Rasmussen:
This time you definitely did. No, you gave a get an overall view of it. And like you said, I think if they want more information, they can they can dig into it. We'll put links to it. But you did good. Yeah. You can go forever on that.
Eric Knight:
You know, I could talk for. Yeah. We can talk for hours about that.
Greg Villafana:
So where were you recently talking in a quick. Yes. Facebook video. You're at a green pool and you were talking about the P.H. and. Yeah, that was pretty cool. You want to talk about that a little bit? Just kind of real quick what you found there.
Eric Knight:
Yeah, sure. It shocked me. So I met a green pool cleanup in Charlotte and we weren't quite on quarantine yet, but it was like shelter in place kind of thing. But the pool service trade is still essential in North Carolina. So I got a customer here, calls me up, says, hey, I got a green pool. Let's go do the ARENDA treatment on it. And we have this cool thing and I want to film it involves phosphate remover and enzymes. And you schoch with chlorine. There's a there's a practice that we do. And I wanted to film it. So we get there. We start testing the water and drop kit only goes up to a point. Oh, well, of course it's Barny Purple. It's like way higher than a point. He said, well, I just got this tweet. This is P.H.. Want this little P.H. meter. Let's try that. It's brand new out of the box. So it put it in there.
Eric Knight:
Ten point three, P.H.. Now, that's freakin cool. I never knew something could measure it that high. It just in the blink of an eye. Ten point three, P.H.. Well, needless to say, I bought that P.H. meter A.D.s meter when I got home that day because that was so cool to see. Ten point three, I thought, man. That's way over eight point two.
Eric Knight:
That is way higher than I thought it could possibly be. Of course, we're in a swamp pool. You can't see six inches into it. That much algae had to consume CO2, so it pulled it out of solution, so the percentage of CO2 actually able to be measured in the water is way lower than it normally would be. Because the algae consumed it, normally, P.H. is only trying to equalize with the air above it.
Eric Knight:
You still have a lot of CO2 in your water relative to an algae bloom, which is going to consume it. So that just shocked me. I had no idea. And for those of you listening that don't realize how dramatic the difference in P.H. can be.
Eric Knight:
Every hole number MPH is 10 times more or less than the next hole number. So ten point three is ten times more basic than nine point three. And it's 100 times more basic than eight point three.
Eric Knight:
So if the limit is eight point two, it's over 100 times more basic than where physics wanted that page to be. And I thought that was just crazy. I'm glad you brought that up. So I'm actually in the process of doing some extra research to write a blog about that. But yeah, it's OK to be ready for a while.
Greg Villafana:
Let's put that video. This one, we're done because I thought that was a cool little video about everything going on.
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Greg Villafana:
So we have.
Eric Knight:
Right. We have one more. We have one more to you guys. Go first. Or do you want to? Or do you want to anchor this really? What do we want to do? What do we want to do? The pressure's on you. I don't know what your second one is. It's the mystery for me. I think you should ask, do you think it sucks compared to mine?
Greg Villafana:
Weren't you all right? You are already getting into this. I'm going to let you finish that because you were already you rolled into abusing the acid. Is that what you're talking about?
Abusing muriatic acid
Eric Knight:
Now, you're you're a real gamer, man. I like that you're you're the competitive spirit. Who wants to take the pressure on it. Anchor the. Really? I approve of that. I will go I will go first and acquiesce to you gentlemen who run the show. The number one by far, number one, worst habit, most common, most prevalent, most consequential habit that we see nationwide is the abuse of muriatic acid. There's all sorts of variations of how you can abuse it. So I use that broad term with impunity. Abusing acid generally comes from not measuring it, not dosing it, right, not adding it right. And then when it comes to start ups and all these other remedies for issues, way adding, way too much of it using, is that as a fix when it shouldn't really be used as a fix? Acid is used as the coverall duct tape of the pool industry in so many ways.
Eric Knight:
And the point I'm trying to make here is around the country. Nobody invites Arenda to the good pools.
Eric Knight:
They only invite us to the problem like mystery problem pools. Most people could handle problems. But when they can't handle problems. That's when we get the call. And I will tell you, without exaggeration, over 90 percent of those calls. Ah, because of abuse of acid. That's astounding to me. So what is abuse of acid?
Eric Knight:
We talked earlier about doubling the dose of acid because we we're not measuring it right or we're not dosing it right or we don't know the volume of the pool, so we don't get an accurate dose. So obviously, adding twice the amount of acid is going to be problematic because you're going to overcorrect the P.H., which over corrects the Elci, which causes etching, which brings out a high P.H. calcium hydroxide, which kind of neutralizes that. But you took away twice the alkalinity. It's a cluster. It's a big problem in a lot of different ways.
Eric Knight:
But that's just a chemical consequence. There's also a cost associated with those chemicals to fix that problem. But what I want to talk about in this one, since we've already covered the measuring and all that stuff. What I want to talk about is how you add acid to the pool.
Eric Knight:
There is a myth in this industry that I believed for the first two or three years that I was in it. I in fact, I didn't know it was a myth until probably last fall, six, seven months ago. I was always told Colomb pouring will reduce alkalinity faster. And it will have less of an impact on P.H. if you just stand in one place and pour acid in a column because it'll burn off alkalinity faster and have less impact on P.H..
Eric Knight:
Well, that's a myth. I'm going to debunk that and by the way, I did not come up with this. I'm I'm relaying information that is available online. I actually heard this information from, on balance, who did a die test of acid going into a pool. It is frickin cool. And with their permission, I put pictures of that on our blog so you could see the picture of the dye test that that they did. Fascinating to see what it is. Muriatic acid's density is 18 percent more than water. That doesn't necessarily sound like a lot, but in hydrodynamics, that's a huge amount. What it does is acid plunges to the bottom of the pool. It's like basically unobstructed, just punches right to the bottom of the pool. What do you think, P.H., at the bottom of pool is when you do that?
Eric Knight:
Zero? Pretty much. I mean, yeah, muriatic is like half of one. It's over. It's over a million times more acidic than neutral water. So when it gets the bottom, maybe two, maybe three. Still severe LSI violation. So, of course, it pulls calcium out because the water is always trying to balance itself on the LSI.
Eric Knight:
The only way it can remedy such a low H is to find calcium. Well, it's not just looking for a lot of calcium. It's looking for calcium saturation. So the most soluble form of calcium available is within that cement. It's calcium hydroxide, which has a very high p h of twelve point six. So this slugging myth slugging column pouring, same thing. It's supposed to I'm using air quotes to you, radio waves, podcast listeners. It's supposed to lower the alkalinity. And burn off more alkalinity than it changes page.
Eric Knight:
Well, the reason that happens, it does happen. The reason it happens is, yes, it burns off alkalinity, but it pulls a high P.H. substance out, which neutralizes a lot of the acid that you just poured in. So you don't see the same impact on the P.H.. That's why it appears that you're making more of an impact on the alkalinity than you are on the page. But obviously, that's a bad thing because you can't put that coursing back into the surface. In reality, the truth is and there are studies that show this, it does not matter how you add acid to a swimming pool, alkalinity or alkalinity is a linear adjustment.
Eric Knight:
So you can pre delude it like you're supposed to and you will reduce the exact same parts per million of alkalinity as if you slug it or if you pour it directly around the perimeter. It does not matter. You will burn off part per million per part per million of alkalinity no matter how you add it. There is zero zero benefit to call it pork. There is only downside.
Eric Knight:
So if you are actually trying to do acid responsibly, you have to pretty dilute and pour it around the perimeter. So far, that's the best known practice. We don't know of any exceptions to this. Absolutely never put acid in a skimmer. I think that that's common sense. But yet people put Trich Lawrence Dimmers. The P.H. of Trich Laws 2.8, that's acid people, that's acid and it's stabilizers, different conversation. But when you put Tricolore in a skimmer, it's going to chew up your equipment. This is and then they see issues like copper staining in their pool. Well, yeah, it stripped the copper out of your heat exchanger. OK, makes sense. If you slug acid or column pour it, it goes down to the bottom, it gets pulled into the main drain and it strips out the copper and your heat exchanger because the P.H. is so low. So what we really have to do is, number one, we have to measure the acid properly. But how we add it changes everything.
Eric Knight:
We have to reduce the density difference. We have to dilute this acid. We want to dilute it 10 to one. So in a you know, take a five gallon bucket, take half of it and let's at two point five gallons. Right.
Eric Knight:
So if you just put a court in that, I think my math is right. That should be 10 to one, maybe a half a quart. Do the math. Ten to one is what you want to hit and pre delude it. Don't you sit for ten seconds, count to ten and then pour that in. You will still get the exact same amount of muriatic acid in that pool.
Eric Knight:
Agreed. Yes. Same amount. So you're going to do the exact same alkalinity adjustment as you should. And you're going to get the proper P.H. correction that you were supposed to get. And of course, since we're no longer abusing acid and we're not chasing P.H., we're not putting that much acid in any way. We're not trying to lower the P.H. below seven for trying to hit seven, six, maybe seven seven, which is a much more responsible way to keep your P.H. in line because you're containing it. So Prita loot in a bucket of water 10 to one and then distribute and you stop so many problems, not just surface problems, but equipment problems, chemical costs. You're no longer overcorrecting. I mean, there's so many benefits to this. And so what I want to talk about with the habit is how do you make such a change? I got pictures, I showed it on our webinar. We got him in the blog. I have an entire file on my computer.
Eric Knight:
Of all the just the horror files of the bad things that Assad has done to swimming pools. And it is astounding. And one thing they all share in common is they were either mis dosed or they were poured directly into the pool. And I'm torn. I'm talking costly stuff here. We're talking replaster as we're talking DRAINE and acid wash is repolish things. That's not cheap. That's not free.
Eric Knight:
And when I was talking to a bunch of people in the U.S.A. and a couple of EPSA chapters, those groups are great. But they're all about insurance. And if you're irresponsibly using acid, if you guys want a way to mitigate your risk. Those of you listening. This is the biggest problem I see around the country, bar none. And I speak for everyone at Arenda when I say that bar none. And in terms of risk of an insurance claim of a destroyed surface or something like that. Pay attention to this problem. Do not slug acid. Do not call and pour acid. Measure it. Get the dosing. Right. Pre delude it. Put it around. If you guys just do that. I wouldn't have to travel nearly as much. And it would be so much better for your homeowners and it could be so much better for your bottom line as well. And your risk is going to go way down and you're going to have your chemistry under control. So that's it. Abuse of acid. Hands down. Biggest problem. I am now off of my soapbox now.
Greg Villafana:
Great stuff. I mean, do you have a recommendation or if in after you're diluting the acid to actually pouring into the pool.
Eric Knight:
Yeah. Yeah. So you want to count to ten and then you want to pour it around the perimeter starting in the deep end. Don't do it like right in front of a skimmer. But I suppose it won't really matter because it's going to sink a little bit anyway. But go around the perimeter of the deepest part of the pool and try to cover me if it's a huge pool. You can't cover half. But try to just walk at a decent pace, spread it around. But what but what deluding 10 to one does is it gives it time. It's still going to try to sink. But it's not going to plunge to the bottom. It's still it gives the acid time to dilute further in the pool so that it's P.H. is actually going up. And it's actually burning off alkalinity and neutralizing before it hits the bottom of your pool. That is so key. And the way you structure a habit on this is I tell everyone they need at least one clean bucket in their truck. And put when you're getting ready to go into a backyard, put the gallon of acid. And a glove and a measuring cup in that bucket. And just carry the bucket in with all your equipment. And now you have the bucket, which reminds you to dilute. You have a measuring cup and a glove, which reminds you to measure. And this habit will form itself.
Eric Knight:
But how many times you guys everybody's guilty of this? It's not an indictment on any one person. Everybody has poured acid directly in the pool. Two years ago, I did it and I'm not a service guy, but I was there trying to help out a service guy that I was on route with. And I call import because that's what I thought was the right thing to do. I feel horrible about it now. But, hey, I never wondered why the bottom of the pool at that time was slightly lighter than the rest of the pool. Go on our Web site. Read the blog. Look at the dye tests that on balance, did look at what muriatic acid does. And it plumes up. And no wonder the bottom, the pool is going to be lighter than the rest of it. Acids, gravity is heavier. So I get pretty passionate about this and I'll explain why I'm more passionate about this than all the other ones. This is people's livelihoods. This can make or break a company, enough warranty calls, enough insurance claims or lawsuits of resurfacing that could break somebody. And I've seen it happen more. More than once. I don't want to ever see it happen again. Guys, this habit is totally free to change if you don't have a clean bucket on your truck. Go to distribution. Find an old tricolore bucket. Rinse it out thoroughly, and there you go. You have a bucket. How cool is that? Very easy. Just do it. Just do it, please. I'm pleading with you. I have nothing to gain. Arenda has no dog in this fight. Except we care about the industry. We care about you guys pretty dilute and dispense around the perimeter of the pool and.
Eric Knight:
Yeah, I'm pretty serious about this one. Back to you guys. We can tell. No, and that's good. No, seriously, like people.
Eric Knight:
Companies have gone under. Largely because of this problem.
Tyler Rasmussen:
I think anybody who is colomb boring, they're going to probably do it in the same spot every week and not even realize it is you're trying to do in the deep end or whatever. And you're just damaging those surfaces every time. I never thought about it really much either until, you know, listening to you talk about it. So that's a really good point.
Greg Villafana:
Yeah. And I think we'll put a link in there, too. But your line actually has color coded buckets that you can buy and you can actually get a orange bucket. And we had labels towards the end that each bucket had a certain label on it so that you knew that that was specifically for that particular item. Genius. I love it.
Eric Knight:
Say you want to come pick him up.
Greg Villafana:
I think we got Lee for the last stack, as you would Phoenix addresses in Scottsdale.
Greg Villafana:
But we got one final topic and talked about this many times. And that's the cleansing.
Eric Knight:
This is yours. This is your bed. This this is the grand poobah. This is the finale. Yeah. What is it, guys? Hit me with it.
Keeping service vehicle clean and organized
Greg Villafana:
Not our bad habit, but definitely pet peeve. Worst pet peeve. But that's, you know, an organized work vehicle and can't tell you how many times we've seen really messy trucks. And that is down to efficiency. It's a safety hazard. There's all kinds of things that tie into this. But we always thought it was a really I get a good idea of thinking about, you know, the technician sits in the driver's seat and thinking about the walking path that they're taking in order to get items and where they're parked on the street and where the pool, for the most part, is actually going to be. So it's looking at the walking pattern and how things can actually be reached. And actually having almost like a chart bet of your truck, a chart of where everything is supposed to be, and printing that out and keeping it in the truck so that everybody knows that as it goes here, like a clearing can go here, you know, shot acid, you know, your hoses, all the different things that a truck has that way, you're taking all the questions out of it. They just know where everything goes. And I think that it it makes people feel proud about, you know, what they do. Because, you know, if you look at a really good electrical company or plumbing company, they have these huge work trucks and everything is extremely organized. You would think that that thing was pulling into a doctor's office or something. It's just so it's just so tight and clean. But we think that we should treat the pool industry, especially the service side, just as serious and making sure that everything is very tight and clean for sure.
Eric Knight:
And take pride in this industry, guys, because I because I wasn't a pool guy, I didn't appreciate it, but I've gone on enough service calls. Name another profession where you have to be an electrician, a plumber, sometimes a carpenter, a cleaner, a chemist. You've got to do it. You have to have a lot of skills to be a good pool person. And, you know, if you hire a plumber to come to your house to do something, he shows up in a shoddy vehicle that's dirty and messy and trash in the dashboard's full of McDonald's trash and all this stuff, you know. I only had to get one thing done in my house, but I don't know. And then you see that crisp service vehicle come up where it's painted nice. It's clean. The guy comes out and he puts on the little boot socks to come into your house. They you know, they respect the space. Those little things make me a lot more common. I will pay more money for the cleaner appearance of the business, even if they're not as good of a technician, because the professionalism of it. You nailed it. I think that's a great one. Dirty trucks, man. And not only.
Tyler Rasmussen:
Not only that piece of it and the pride, but running in the repair division of a company like there was so many times where Colin, I would call the technicians and say, hey, you know, you have this in your truck. And no, I don't think yeah, you do, because Kyle checked it this morning and, you know, went through the list of everything and it's on your truck. Well, I can't find it. I've got to go to distribution. I got to make this extra trip. So they're going back and wasting time, wasting their time, wasting your time, raising the customer's time and gas wasting gas. I mean, it's it's a big, big waste. And, you know, having an organized vehicle like we had go kits, which you talked about before, that had every O'Reagan and everything that were there was checked every night. But, you know, my organization piece that is able to for the technician to know exactly was on the truck and where it is and where to find it. And. That way, you are much more efficient. It's very annoying as an owner to to hear like. I don't have one of those. And then you get back to the shop. I find it. And I just had to buy two of those because you couldn't find the one that you already had. So it's really, really nice.
Eric Knight:
Waste as your mobile office. Yeah. This is this is the front of your business that homeowners see. They don't. They're walking into your warehouse. The warehouse has to be cleaned, too. But this is what is customer facing. Clean your truck. Keep your trash to a minimum and clean it out when you go to distribution, they all have dumpsters. When you go home, you have trash cans, just, you know.
Eric Knight:
Well, I'm not the I'm not the cleanliness police by any means of customers. That's not my space. I'm not in the business of telling people how to run their business.
Eric Knight:
But if you're going to take advice from a totally unqualified pool guy, but a guy who has seen nothing but problems for the last three years at a high concentration of them, I've been all over the country. That is a huge problem that I do see. So kudos to you guys for calling it and bringing it up. It definitely matters. Professionalism does matter. And if you want it, start attracting the higher end clientele rather than the cheapest guy on the block. And you're competing on price. You have to dress the part.
Greg Villafana:
Have standards for sure.
Tyler Rasmussen:
Spent a long time since I heard it or saw, but that millionaire pool man that came out a long time ago. That's like one of the big pieces of it is is a professionalism.
Greg Villafana:
It's the biggest piece. I think, you know, this goes for everything. When you see a problem, feel a problem. Why is it a problem? Write it down. Do something about it. These aren't these are all things that we know and do because we went through it and it was like, OK, that truck looks like shit. This one looks really good. I like the one that looks really good. How do we make them all look good? And you start to figure out how you need to put all those pieces together. But yep, that was that was ours. That was the last one we had to contribute.
Eric Knight:
That's a great one. What a way to anchor this. I think that's a great message. Thank you guys for having me on to share these habits. You kind of enclosing the whole idea behind these six habits? At the beginning, I said at first I was just kind of like I wanted to change it up because I'd never I always teach the same material. Four pillars, LSI start up, all that stuff. I really wanted to to teach something that was very easy for people to grasp, a very simple action step. So to recap this whole thing of my six and then you guys, if you can for each of years, come up with a simple action step. The first one I said was measure pool chemicals. The action step is have a measuring cup for liquid and have a separate measuring cup for dry chemicals and use them. That's your action set for the first one. The second one was the pool volume, measure the pool volume, contact the pool builder, and if that's not an available option, measure it out and get as close as you can.
Eric Knight:
I forgot to mention there is a chemical way using titration of alkalinity. It's pretty complex, but we hyperlinked do it in our Web site. If you have all the time and you want to put on a lab science coat, you can actually get really accurate on a volume. This is probably worth it only for those really complex shaped fancy pools with a customer that you cannot lose. Like you've got to be on your absolute A game. This is a great solution for that pool. If you don't know the volume, take the time. But it's going to take you probably an hour at least to do that. But it's in our Web site, in our how to measure a pool log. There's a hyperlink to it.
Eric Knight:
The next one is don't ignore water temperature. That's easy. Use the thermometer. Applied to the Elci calculator. Easy action step. The next one is. Don't neglect test kits. Sleep with them, as Greg said.
Eric Knight:
No, no.
Eric Knight:
They actually sent for that is treat it like it's a valuable tool. Treat it just as important as your phone. You'll keep it inside your vehicle if it's really hot or really cold outside. Bring it into your house at night. Do not leave it out in the back of the test in the back of the sun. Don't leave it in the bed of your truck all day. It cannot handle that heat and then calibrate them, keep them clean, keep the files clean. You know, make sure you're looking at reagents. Just take care of your test kit. And then don't chase P.H. is the second to last, have it set your framework with the LSI. Don't worry about lowering it below seven, six or so because it does not control the strength of your chlorine. If they're sign Eric acid in the pool. And again, we've hyperlinked to all that. So instead of lowering it too much, lower the P.H. only down to seven, six, maybe even seven seven. And let it climb to eight because physics is going to take it there anyway. And don't freak out about it. Contain P.H.. Don't try to control it. And finally, abusing acid. Measure it. Well, dose it right. Measure it right and add it right. That means pre diluting it in a bucket. Ten to one and adding it around the perimeter. If guys if you do those six habits, if you are not more profitable next month, over this month, I will be shocked. I'll be shocked not and that's notwithstanding Cauvin 19 or anything like that. Just based comparison pool for pool. You should see a big difference in your acid consumption and your profitability. So, guys, techs home. What's the action steps for years?
Tyler Rasmussen:
Yeah. I talked about not using your phone too much and utilizing your time to the best of its abilities. I think that's to make those steps happen like we talked about. You take the pictures or whatever and plan out your social media posts, take into account how much time is taking you back your phone, ask these questions. If the is not important to ask at that moment, take the time later to ask it, but get through the work first. Make sure that you are taking the time to do each poll correctly, not being distracted by being on the phone, not being distracted by talking on the phone, but really focusing on each poll as you go along. And I think that will make a big difference in the time that you're spending out in the field, especially Arizona makes a big difference whether you had done an eleven or four o'clock.
Tyler Rasmussen:
So you know for sure it's really hot for one thing. Exactly.
Greg Villafana:
Yeah. And the last one, the merit is keeping your vehicle organized and clean and safe and taking all the measures you need in order to make that happen.
Greg Villafana:
It's not as difficult as some of the other things that we've talked about, but it's definitely an eyesore. And it'll allow everybody to take pride in their work vehicle. And that that's it. That's a wrap. You're awesome. That's a wrap. Thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, for sure. We appreciate it. You know, one more time. Where can people find Arenda?
Eric Knight:
So we're all over the Internet so you can find we have a YouTube channel, Arenda Technologies. We're on LinkedIn. We're on Facebook again. Arenda Technologies. I think it's at or Renda Tech TCHC. Our Web site is Arenda Tech Acom. We have a very Thorold blog and video section. We also have Arenda Academy and the Arenda Academy, four pillars, which is kind of like the university level. And those are free online training video series with quizzes totally free, like I said.
Eric Knight:
And we take education and really pay it forward. And we don't ask for anything in return. We just want to get this information out, because if we can help you add value to your customers, that's a good thing for all of us.
Eric Knight:
So, yeah, if you could follow our stuff. Awesome. And I really appreciate you guys having me on. And we'll keep doing what we do. You keep doing what you do.
Eric Knight:
All right. Thanks, Erica. Stay socially. Distant voice You, too. Thanks so much. All right.
Outro:
Hey, Pool Chasers. Thanks for checking out this episode. Did you know that each episode has its own page on our Web site? This is where you can find more information about the guests and episode topic, as well as all the resources that we discussed throughout the show to get to the Web page. Click the link below. Also below, you will find links to the sponsors of the show, as well as links to follows on our social media channels. On our channels, you will find some of our favorite clips. And bonus material, please follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. Our tag is pool chasers. We also have a Facebook group for the Poor Chasers community. Here you will find like minded professionals all looking to make each other better. One last thing. If the episode has brought you value and please check out our patrie on page shows, support us. And if you could, please write and review the podcast. We would love to hear what your favorite topics are. Thank you for your time and your ear out there for chasers.
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